Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, and welcome to today's episode of the Intuitive Femme Network. I am your host, Nancy Cooper, and today we have special guest Stephanie McPhail, and she is going to be teaching us all about how to transition out of a space of being what we think we're supposed to be into actually being what we love to be.
All right, tell us about yourself, Stephanie.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: Well, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here, and hopefully this is going to help people that are listening. I. I don't know if this resonates for anybody, but I used to be really good at choosing really shitty partners and trying really hard to make it work.
[00:00:45] Speaker A: I think most of us can raise our hand and say hi, Stephanie. Welcome.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: Me, too. Well, I got to be about 28, and I thought, you know, I've never really been in a really healthy relationship. Relationship. I felt my biological clock ticking, and I thought, when you get. You're supposed to get married and have kids and do all that kind of stuff. All my friends were getting married, and so the guy I was dating wanted to very quickly get married. He said we should get married at Oheka Castle, which was a beautiful spot. I had some red flags, but I ignored them because I was 28 and I felt old. And I got married. And that night we went up to the honeymoon suite, and he strangled me until I thought I was going to die.
Luckily, he stopped, and I had this feel. I curled up in a ball. I was crying. And I remember thinking to myself, I can't be married to this man. I just married this man, and I can't. I don't want to tell anybody. I'm embarrassed. I had a family from all over, like Europe and all over the place to come visit, and I really didn't know what to do. And of course, he told me all the right things, that he was never going to do it again. And he promised and all that, and so I said okay. And within a few months, he had already started up again. And I spent the whole time we were married kicking him out, letting him back in, trying to get him to understand that what he was doing was wrong. And of course he knew it was wrong. He knew he shouldn't have been that way, but. And I didn't realize I was enabling that behavior by staying. And so when I finally decided that I couldn't do it anymore, I ended the relationship. It was not easy. I went through the dark night of the soul where I went through a major depression. I couldn't eat. I couldn't sleep. Everything was awful. I thought it was going to get better after we got divorced, and it didn't. And I realized I ended up in the hospital with a sprained ankle after, like everything that could go wrong in my life possibly did. And I ended up in the hospital with a sprained ankle. And the doctor came in with my ex husband because he was on my record for emergency contacts. And I heard a voice that said, you need to be your own knight in shining armor. You have to stop waiting for someone to come and save you and you have to save yourself. And it was clear as day. And I remember in that exact moment I said, whatever I've done before hasn't worked. Trying to do this by myself doesn't work. I need to create a team. And so it began my journey of self discovery. I started hanging around people that were also focused on creating something better for themselves, that were in healthy relationships. I started doing things for myself. And I realized that I was not the only successful professional woman who, who kept choosing these toxic partners. And it became my mission to share that. Like, hey, if it could happen to me, it can happen to anyone else. But that also means that I'm no guru. If I can get better and create a better life for myself, that means anybody else can too. You just need the right support. So I've been running my business for 11 years. I actually am married now to my best friend who also works with me. And we have two beautiful children together. And we got married at 38. So anybody that feels like I have my first child at 38, my second at almost 41. So anybody who feels like that biological clock is ticking, it's a load of shit. It's what we have been told and what we've been programmed. We can have the opportunity at any point to change our lives.
[00:03:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I love this. I think it's something that a lot of.
A lot of us can really relate to. Where we do, we. We ignore these red flags. We ignore. And they're. They're like glaring, right? It's not like it's like subtle. It's like someone running across the field with a red flag. And we're just like.
Because we feel like we're just supposed to do this. We feel like we're supposed to be meeting some kind of expectation or timeline or whatever it is. And so we ignore them and we end up in these very, honestly, very dangerous situations. It's something I can personally relate to as well. And h. It's one of those frustrations where it is we want. We Want to be able to share and say, hey, like it doesn't have to go like that. Like you are able to give yourself permission to create a life based on your terms and not what society or your family or your friends or whatever is telling you it should be like and look like. But that, that self abandonment happens so often because of that external pressure. Is this something that, that you've also seen with like your clients and the people that you work with? It's all of that external pressure that's causing them to make these decisions that ultimately put them in situations that sometimes are very, very dangerous.
[00:05:26] Speaker B: I think it's external, it's internal, it becomes internalized. So I mean, I always, I always, as a kid, I always just wanted to fit in. And I remember like people would say that I stood out in some way, shape or form and I wanted to just shrink. I didn't want to stand out. I wanted to just fit in with everybody else. And I think that that feeling of wanting to shrink myself and just kind of like disappear into the abyss of other people and you know, whatever the self esteem was or whatever it was. But when I saw my friends all getting married and having these great relationships or so I thought, it's like, what's wrong with me that I can't create these healthy relationships, that I don't get to have the great husband and the great marriage and all of those things. And you know, I didn't feel, and I didn't realize this right away, but I didn't feel worthy of those things. I thought there was something really inherently wrong with me that I couldn't create those because I hadn't had really healthy relationships. Like whatever my upbringing was, my parents didn't always get along so great. You know, it was that typical thing. And then when I started dating, I also didn't attract very healthy people in general. And so, you know, I think it was just, it became this internal thought of like, there's like, I'm screwed up and maybe I'm not deserving of someone who treats me well. Maybe I don't get to have that healthy partner. Maybe I don't get to experience those things. Maybe I settle and shrink myself to be able to follow what I think I'm supposed to do.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like that attempt again to fit in. Like, it's like I, I just need to figure out how to fit in. So I'm going to ignore these red flags. I'm going to forget about my own needs and just try to shrink into this Persona. Or this idea that I feel like I'm supposed to be.
I'm. I'm feeling so much connection with this because I too, I'm 38 and I've never been married. And it is because I too, had that same feeling where it's like, maybe this just isn't for me. Maybe I'm not worthy of this. Maybe I'm not deserving of this. And it too attracted me to a lot of different relationships and circumstances that were not healthy and that were also dangerous. And so I feel like this is definitely something that a lot of us as women can relate to. And it, it's so interesting, right, because we're like, well, we just want to fit in. And then it's like, here's the secret. Most of us feel this way so we're not oddballs out. Like, what a weird. Right? Like, what a weird concept.
I would love to kind of dig in a little bit to kind of this. Like, I refer to it as self abandonment. And that's when we do see red flags and we choose to ignore them to prioritize something else.
I, I personally, again, have seen this with you find these men, and they are. They want to lock you down. Like, they're ready. It's that love bombing. It's that they come in really hot and heavy, really fast, trying to, you know, pay all your bills and offer to buy you a new car or put new tires on your car or whatever it is. Like, they, they find a problem that you have and they're like, I'm. I'm gonna fix it. I'm going to take care of it, and I want to marry you. And it's like, whoa. You know, and if we're in a space, though, where we're struggling, where we're feeling like we've never really been seen, where we don't feel like we've ever really been appreciated or loved or experienced unconditional love. When someone comes in like that, really hot, really fast, feels good. Like, let's be real, it feels really good. It's that thing that we've been wanting. We finally feel seen, we finally feel loved. We finally feel worthy of. Of this kind of attention. And this is where it's like that, that trap. Because it's not a thing that we're not worthy of it. It's a thing of. There are individuals out there who highly capitalize on a woman's desire to feel unconditionally loved and to feel that support and to feel like they fit in and belong as you work with your clients and go through the work that you do.
Do you see this, like, really often where the red flags are pretty glaring, but it's like we've got blinders onto them.
[00:10:01] Speaker B: Yeah. So that's where. Where we come from. Need. And that's one of the things really important is that when we are saying to ourselves, if we are in the dating world and we say, I need to find a relationship, not I am not good enough if I am not in a relationship, what will people think of me if I'm single? Like, we have all these subconscious beliefs about what the other. What the world thinks of us and again, internalize. So, like, one of the things that I say to clients is, is when they come to me and they say, hey, I want to start dating right away, I'm like, whoa, let's take a step back and let's fill up our own cup first. Because who is attracted to needy people? People that are going to take advantage of you. The narcissist, right? The people that have some pretty big issues are going to come in, they're going to swoop you off your feet. They're going to tell you all the things you want to hear. So if you're coming from a place of need, then you're going to attract someone who's going to take advantage of that. So in order to protect yourself, we come from a place of who is going to. And I call this dating for educational purposes. Who is going to be a good fit. For me, it is a empowered stance. Not let me prove myself to this other person. It's, I know I'm pretty awesome, and someone that's going to be my life is going to be pretty awesome too. And if they're not, then I'm not going to put up with it. It's a very different way. And we haven't been taught that. I think we especially, it's be complacent, you know, don't be too loud, all those things. And so, you know, what I always say is, you got to fill up your own cup. So filling up your own cup is not just bubble baths and having a glass of wine and stuff like that. It's what is it that sets your soul on fire? What do you love to do? So, you know, I will say that a lot of the times when people ask me what I do, I'm like, two of the biggest things I do is I teach people how to make friends and I teach people how to stop avoiding things, because we will avoid dealing with the things that we need to. Because it feels uncomfortable.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:12:01] Speaker B: So we'll put off ending that relationship because it hurts, because we love them, because we see the potential. But deep down we know that we should. Or we avoid those big feelings of abandonment because we don't want to think about it. We don't want to feel like there's something wrong with us. And so we avoid having those big conversations with people that we love because we're afraid that they're going to leave us. So, like all of those things that we avoid. And I mean, and I have some clients that are like, they have their second like, Ph.D. and I'm like, so what are you avoiding? Because what is going on in your life that you're going for another doctorate? Oh, it was a shitty relationship. Okay.
[00:12:34] Speaker A: I love that.
[00:12:35] Speaker B: Call it like you put your energy in the right place. Like, that's awesome. But let's talk about actually feeling the feelings now.
[00:12:45] Speaker A: Oh yeah, yeah. It's that avoidance. Like, what are we hiding in? You know? And that, that is something that I've talked about with relationships and secure attachments. It's like if we're having that person that comes in and they're expecting us to be constantly available to them, to regulate them because they cannot self regulate, this is a problem because anybody who has a sense of purpose in their life, who has a satisfying and happy life, who is going to be emotionally healthy, is not going to be constantly trying to text and talk all day long looking for an external dopamine hit, looking for that external validation that right there in and of itself is a red flag. But so many of us as women, we've been taught and programmed that that's what interest looks like, that's what pursue all looks like. And so if someone comes into our reality after we've done the work and we've, you know, understood like, I'm going to operate from desire instead of need. I'm going to attract what I want, what's really going to fill me up, what's going to feel yummy, what's going to feel good versus I need this, I have to have this. We start operating from that space, we start doing the inner work to clear out those old attachments. But then someone healthy does come in and because they're not blowing up our phone, they're not doing these different things that we don't have to constantly be regulating them. Then that's where I feel like a whole nother level comes up because we're sitting there going, whoa, what it, what's going on? Is this person actually interested in me. If it's not my role to regulate someone, what am I doing in this relationship? And so this is something I've found as I went through my own process, that I struggled with, and I've seen it also with my clients. Is this something that you've come across as well in your work?
[00:14:44] Speaker B: Well, I just want to add, though, too, is that we also need to learn how to regulate ourselves. It's not the job of our partner to be the everything. And that's a. That's a big issue. That happens, too. Like, you see your friends and they get into a relationship, and you're like, I'll see you when the relationship's over.
They totally disappear.
[00:15:04] Speaker A: Three months after the, you know, the thrills were worn off.
[00:15:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So you have to. So, I mean, there's a bunch of different things there, but, I mean, one of them is just really saying to yourself, hey, I can be in a relationship and still be autonomous. I can still have my own life. I can still do my own thing. And I use the example of camping. My husband and I have some different interests in life, and one of them, I love camping. I love being outdoors. I'll sleep on the floor. I don't care. My husband would rather sleep in a hotel. Totally fine. Both are totally fine. It's not like one is right and one is wrong. Now, I can get him to come with me camping, and he'll do it, but he won't love it.
Or I can go with friends that love camping and have a great time camping and then come back and tell him the cool adventures that I had. One is going to cause frustration, and the other one is going to bring more excitement and adventure in the relationship. You don't have to do everything together. You don't have to have all of the same interests. And it's okay to have different lives that you come together with and, you know, work together with. And the other part that I was going to say is that one of the biggest learnings that I had, and actually the name of my book is Being Loved Shouldn't Hurt. And there was a moment that I was at a concert with my friends. I'm a big Fish fan. If you don't know, that's like the Grateful Dead type of, you know, the 90s or in 2000s. But I was at a show, and I remember hanging out with my friends, and all of a sudden we're, like, listening to music, and it's really like a great. Like a little bit of a lull. And I kind of started having tears in my eyes. And I said to my friend, I finally understood what love means. And my friend looked at me and she's like, what, what are we, what are we doing here? You know? It was like the funniest look on her face.
[00:16:46] Speaker A: And I was like, yeah, exactly.
[00:16:49] Speaker B: What was in there? But I was like, but I said to her, I was like, it's calmness. And she was like, she looked at me and she was like, yes. And, but I, I never felt that in my heart. To me, love meant stress and anxiety and proving myself. And so when I found those relationships, I was like, ooh, this is setting off all of those things of like anxiety and stress, improving myself at all things. That's love. And when I finally understood that love was calm, then I no longer wanted to go find the anxious love. I wanted to find the calm love. And so like when I met my now husband, it was this sense of peace and calm. I didn't have to explain, I didn't have to prove myself. In fact, when him and I first started dating, I was like, I don't even know if I want a relationship. I'm still dating other people. You know, I totally was just nonchalant about the whole thing. And he was totally non controlling, was like, you just be you. And I was like, wait, what? You don't want to change me in order to control me? Like I felt I could tell him anything, he wouldn't get mad at me. It was very easy. I also didn't need a relationship. I was totally fine being single. And that change, that shift that I had of the calmness made me see my husband at my now husband for what he was before. That would have been a turn off. It's calm. He doesn't like me, he's not interested in me, he's not showing things that I normally get. I had to do my own work to even see him as a potential partner.
[00:18:15] Speaker A: Yes, I see this so much. It's. I work a lot in the realm of like self sabotage. And so it's in that in between space where we're trying to become that version of us that can hold our desires, but then that old version is still sitting there, right? And so it can be easy when things start getting better, when they start feeling easier, when they start feeling safer for that nervous system to play that rubber bandit like effect and try to snap back because we're sitting there going, this feels foreign, this feels unsafe in a different way. And that is part of that re regulation of our own nervous system is having to sit with that and say, why? Why does this feel foreign? Why am I so worried? Like, if this person isn't interested, why is them not blowing up my phone telling me that they're not interested? Even though they are still texting me, they are still sharing about their day, they're asking about me. Like, what. What is happening here? And so that willingness to sit in that void, sit in that gap between the old version and this version that we need to become, who can hold that type of relationship that we want and understand. Like you said, it's not that new person's job either to regulate us. It's not for us to say, gosh, you know, you're not texting me enough and it's making me feel anxious, or I, I don't know if you're interested or we have to be able to sit in that. We have to be able to sit in that energy and get to a point where we feel secure enough in our own identity and in ourselves to where there isn't that fear of, what if I put myself out there and they don't catch me? It's like getting into a space where I can feel secure within myself, but I don't need for someone to catch me because I can fly, because I'm so deeply rooted in me that there is no way that I, I could float off into the abyss and would need for them to catch me. Like, I can be open and allow and receive. This is something that came through a few days ago for me was how often we stay in this energy of caring about how we are received versus allowing ourselves to receive.
This is exactly that kind of energy where it's like we're so focused, like you were saying that internalized. Then we're like, I need this external validation. I need this thing so that I can prove to myself that people can receive me.
And instead switching that into a space of can I receive? Can I receive call, Can I receive peace?
[00:21:07] Speaker B: Well, being the chameleon is what a lot of us have been taught. And so, like, I want people to like me, and if they don't like me, there's something wrong with me. So I'm going to be a bunch of different versions to a bunch of different people. But then we can't be even slightly surprised when we end up with the wrong person because we haven't been truly ourselves. If people, and I say this all the time, you gotta let your weirdo flag fly, like, hey, this is me. And if you don't like it. Cool. Yeah, you're wrong.
[00:21:36] Speaker A: But cool.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: Like, it's totally okay. Don't like me. It's okay not to like me. I don't like everybody either. It's. It's okay. We don't, we don't, you know, we're not attracted to the same types of people. That's okay. But the more authentically you. You are, the more you will attract those people that like all those things about you. You know, I say, like, I love dancing. And so that was something like my first husband was like, he could only dance if it was. If he was drunk and it was the right type of music. And all these certain things had to be in alignment. Me, I'll dance to everything. Like, I. I love dancing. Whatever. My husband now is a musician. He loves dancing also. He, like, we go places even when he loves to dance. That's something that's important to me. My. My husband now loves one that I have strong feelings and opinions about things and one, I want to talk or whatever. My ex husband would tell me that I talked too much and nobody wanted to hear what I had to say. Same person. But he didn't like those things about me. He didn't appreciate those things. And I. And instead I tried to make myself small to fit into what he wanted. Where instead, when you really know who you are and what you want, you're not. You're unapologetically yourself. Those people are going to love those things about you that other people have told you that that were not. That were not enough or weren't good. And I want to add this too. For a lot of people that go through this just to kind of bring back what you said before, they feel like when they're like, hey, how come I feel like I only want the bad guys? Like, I have this conversation all the time with clients. I'm always attracted to the bad guys. Why? Because it gives you that hit of proving and needing and that anxiety. And so when we meet the calm guys, we're bored. We're bored. We're like, this guy's too nice. I don't know what to do with myself. But instead of realizing, no, your home should be calm. It's. You go find adventure in other things. You can go skydiving. You can write a book. You can do public speaking. You can do other things that make you, like, nervous and excited and have these other adventures. But home should be where it's calm. That's where we haven't been told those things. We look for the we look for the adventure and the excitement in the wrong places. Instead of realizing that it should be. We shouldn't be proving ourselves to our partner. We should feel the same safest there. That should be our. Our safe space around our partner where we can be really, really comfortable in saying anything that comes to our mind. Not being worried they're going to be upset with us and knowing that they're still going to be there because they love us for who we are.
[00:23:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. Where do you feel that boundaries come into play? That was the word that came through when you were talking about all this, like, boundaries. Because I know for a lot of my clients, stuff that that comes up when we go through sessions is it's like this level of feeling like, well, I need to accommodate or over accommodate people. Right. That's the old programming that we have to. To clear out and get rid of. And so they feel like they. They can't ever place appropriate boundaries. They're like, well, how do I bring it back up later? Or how do I. How do I say that they hurt my feelings or how do I do that? I have my own opinions on kind of how to place those boundaries, but I would love to hear your perspective on that.
[00:24:47] Speaker B: Well, the thing I didn't learn what a boundary was, I was 34. I was like, oh, you could have a boundary. That's amazing. I just totally lost.
But I think a lot of people get it confused where boundaries is not you deciding for somebody else what they need to do, it's you deciding for yourself what's okay for you. And I think that's where a lot of people, because it comes across sometimes as controlling. I'm trying to control somebody else's behavior, which it's not. For me, a boundary is like, if I will not allow cheating in my relationship, I. I am not okay with an open relationship that might be totally fine with you. Again, I'm not here to judge, but that for me is an important boundary. I need to have that level of trust with someone. Now, there could be other things. Like, you know, if. For some. For example, like what you said, like, what could be an example? Well, if somebody. If you make a plan to hang out with one of your friends and they're constantly late, you have. It's up to you to say something. Because if your boundary is my time is important, then you need to say something. So the thing that you would say is you wouldn't just ghost them and never talk to them again. I mean, that's part of communication that a Lot of people, they're afraid to say anything. And I think that we could do a whole thing about that.
[00:25:56] Speaker A: But the reality comes from, they just don't, they don't know how to say. So there's like, yes, so that's just.
[00:26:02] Speaker B: Easier to be mad. And I'm never going to talk to them again because they did xyz and it's like, yeah, but they have no idea what they did wrong. So you're not helping the situation and you're not learning how to communicate. But that's a whole other conversation podcast. Yeah, exactly. But if you, if you're, if your thing is, is that my boundary is that my time is important, then you might say to them, you know, hey, I noticed that you're late a lot to our appointments or to, you know, to our times to hang out. If we're, you know, should we make it a 30 minute time, like 30 minutes later? Or if you're not going to make it, just let me know so that I can go and do something else. Or it can even be like, I'm not going to be able to hang out with you anymore if you can't show up to the time that we already agreed upon. So being very, being firm, it don't. It doesn't have to be mean, it doesn't have to be hurtful, but you have to think about it. What is it? How does this affect you and what would you like to see in the future and being okay to share that, you know? And again, the people that don't like boundaries are probably the ones that shouldn't be in your life to begin with. If they want to be able to walk all over you, they want you to be a doormat. They're not really your person anyway.
[00:27:06] Speaker A: Exactly. I love that. And that that's very similar.
I am 100% on board with what you're saying. I typically say something about, like, we have to make sure that boundaries happen in the moment.
That's why it's so hard. People are like, I just don't know how to bring it up later. And it's like, well, you shouldn't bring it up later. There are ways for us to communicate, communicate in the moment. And then if we're not willing to make ourselves that uncomfortable in that moment, then we either need to one recognize that it's just not that important to us and we need to be willing to let it go, or we need to work on ourselves more so that we can have that confidence to say something.
[00:27:52] Speaker B: Because sometimes we don't realize it. Like, you know, sometimes something happens and like after the fact, you're like, huh, I feel kind of shitty about that thing, but I don't know what it is. And then you think about, especially if you've never practiced boundaries before, so you might not even know what they are. So as you're learning, it might be after the fact because you didn't even realize somebody crossed your boundary until it's like the next day and you're like, I feel like crap. Why? Oh, it's because they did this thing again over and over again and it annoys the hell out of me and I need to say something. So I think when you get to that kind of point, you need to say something to the effect of, hey, I need your help. Can we come up with a solution together? This is what I'm seeing and I'd like your help in finding out a solution to it. Or let's, let's figure this out together. This is what I'm feeling and I'm wondering what your thoughts are.
It's a conversation that's pulling people in, but it's opening up like, hey, I don't feel great about this and I just want to talk about it. Or like, if you have time, I'd like to talk to you about something that makes me a little bit uncomfortable, but I want to be able to talk about it with you. Is it possible to talk On Thursday at 10:00, something like that?
[00:28:57] Speaker A: Yeah, because you're. You are right. Boundaries are a lot harder to put in place if we're not used to doing that. And there's different personality types. I have a more what I would say, aggressive personality, where if something's bothering me, I'm going to say it, or I'm going to make a decision where it's just not that big of a deal to me to say it. And I'm going to be willing to allow it to. Like, I need to let it go if I'm not willing to, like, really, like, get into it. Like, for example, like, say someone comes to you, they've had a really bad day, it's like a friend or a loved one, and they kind of take it out on you. Like, we have an opportunity in that moment to say, whoa, Like, I get that you're upset, but I'm, I'm not going to be talked to like that. Or we can sit there and recognize this has nothing to do with me and this person is just venting, they're upset and I'm just gonna Accept that and let it be what it is and move on from it. I feel like those decisions are important because we, we will find in situations where it's like, I can't let this go. Like, we harbor things for so long and it's like, well, we either need to be willing to say something about it or, or willing to let it go. Like, there's, there's really no in between on that. And I love your approach with that. Say, hey, I need your help. Because so often when we go to someone to say, I don't like your behavior, it bothered me. They feel very attacked, right? So when we feel attacked, the natural thing to do is to get in defense mode. And so we're going to defend instead of be open and receptive. So I think that that's a really, really helpful strategy to position it as I need your help. I really want to work on my even saying, like, my communication. I know that you care about me and want me to be happy in this relationship. So, like, bear with me, you know, whatever it is, like, however we need to say it. But if we can start something saying like, I need you here with me in space, I feel like that's like an immediate way to diffuse and take someone out of their own nervous system of like, flight and fight and into a receptive space for solution.
[00:31:25] Speaker B: I'm going to add too that when I, I mean, and I still do this now, I don't. I. I still am a natural people pleaser. I want people to be happy. I don't want anyone to be mad at me. I know that about myself. But I also know, well, and I also know that it's not always about me. In fact, most of the time it's not about me at all. Everyone's got, everyone's walking around and it's all me, me. We don't.
So, you know, somebody else's stuff is their stuff. And so I still have to take responsibility for my behavior. But I also have to recognize that it's not because of me necessarily that someone's attacking me. In fact, most of the time it's their own stuff that's going on. However, I have learned that when I feel my throat get tight, that means I have to say something. So even if, like, my throat is tight and I'm like, I don't want to say this thing. I don't want to say this thing. That's when I know I have to say that thing. And it's, and it's normally. And I, I've never had I mean, it's. It's always been right. Like, when I've ignored it and not said anything later on, I've realized that I should have spoken up at that moment. So for people that are in that learning of the boundaries phase, maybe for you it's not your throat, maybe it's a feeling in your chest or your stomach or the back of your head or something like that. Pay attention to your body, because your body will give you little, you know, warning signs of when you should be speaking up. We just ignore it. We're like, I should have said something and I didn't. And then, like, we could unpack all the reasons why you didn't. However, you're listen to what your body says. And again, sometimes it's like, you know, like I practiced when I was going through my divorce where people would ask me how I was doing, and I used to always say, fine. And I went through a small phase where I just said, actually, it's really terrible.
[00:33:04] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:33:05] Speaker B: Oh, really? And I'm like, yeah. Because I had to, like, kind of like this pendulum for me, had to swing a little bit more the other direction and just be a little bit more honest. Like, because I was always, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. Well, I had to say, I'm not fine. And then I was able to, like, go back and be a little bit, you know, appropriate with the right people saying it. But I was so used to pretending everything was okay to make sure everybody was happy and felt good around me, that speaking up for myself was really foreign for a while.
[00:33:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:33] Speaker A: And it can feel really unsafe. This is something that more in, like, the woo aspect of some of the stuff that I do, I talk about that inherited, like, generational trauma of that's referred to as the witch's wound, even though, you know, has nothing to do with being a witch or anything in that aspect. But it's that. That persecution, wounding that we've inherited as a woman, because in the past when women would speak or be in their power or show up, like, it was a catastrophic consequence that they faced. And this is something that as the feminine, we have unfortunately innately inherited. And so it can feel really, really uncomfortable in those moments, like dangerous almost. And so I find it so interesting that you're saying that about the throat tightening, because that is something that we'll see, like, with that inherited, because let's be real, like, what happened to a lot of women, they were hung.
Just lots of different things like that. So it's like our body is communicating and we have to learn, like, who is safe to communicate with and who is not. And then in those situations where it's like, this person is just never going to hear me, this person is never going to get like any of this, like you were saying about your first husband, it gets to a point where it's like, I'm not going to try to beat this drum.
Like, it's not moving, like nothing's shifting, nothing's changing. And so, yes, as we do our work and as we're like reprogramming our nervous system and getting more comfortable with healthy boundaries, healthy relationships, that is still going to feel uncomfortable. And so the more we practice it with safe people, the more comfortable it becomes. And I completely agree with you, like you said, if people are upset that we're placed in a boundary, they don't need to have inner circle, VIP access to us.
[00:35:39] Speaker B: Yes, exactly.
And we all need to take responsibility for ourselves. And I think when I tell people or share my story and people ask me, are you mad at your ex husband for how he treated you? And the answer really is no. I don't, I actually don't harbor any other feelings other than, you know, joy and relief that I'm out of there and appreciative the lessons that I got. And I think, you know, I wouldn't want to go back there to say, you know, for millions of dollars, I wouldn't go back there. But it was a great opportunity to learn and grow and, you know, and I can, I can sit there. And so this is where I think sometimes people like misunderstand or misinterpret forgiveness. Forgiveness is for yourself. It's not for the other person. Like, I can forgive him, but that doesn't mean you don't want to have coffee with him. Like, I can forgive him because it's me letting go. But the, but the cool thing is, is that when I, when I look at it from that perspective and look at it from, what are the lessons that I learned? I learned that I was a common denominator in all of my unhealthy relationships. I had dated many men with similar attributes. And so because of that, it wasn't because it's not victim blaming. To me, it's empowering to be able to say, hey, I was a common denominator, which means I can also fix it. I can actually make my life better because I can take responsibility for my behavior, for my part in all of the situations. And I will say that my ex husband Never, ever took responsibility. And it's been 13 years since we got a divorce, and he still thinks that I am the reason why he can't have a healthy relationship. And I've been happily married for 10 years. So there's. There's a very big disconnect with someone that says, I'm going to take responsibility, look at what I did wrong, and work on myself versus someone that says it's everybody else's fault and I'm going to keep doing exactly what I'm doing, one person's going to be a lot happier. And I'll let you guess which one, right?
[00:37:37] Speaker A: Well, and that's the thing. That's the potential for growth, right? If we are going to come into a situation and say, everyone else is the problem, I can't do anything wrong. I have nothing I can learn from this. This. We are trapped in time. Like, there. There's nothing.
There's nothing there. There's no potential there. This is why it's like, I'm going to date this person's potential. Well, honey, if they're in that frame, like, there is no potential. There's nothing there that says growth can occur. So that this is one, I think, very important thing for us to recognize. There is no potential with someone who feels that they cannot learn and has no accountability and takes no responsibility for how they show up. Zero lies there. But for those of us that can take that moment and sit back and say, okay, how. How am I contributing to my own suffering? Right? That's saying, you know, my best personal growth is looking at that. And I say that words like, I'm ground zero, right? It's like, it all comes back here. And so how have I been showing up? How have I been participating in this? And I completely agree with you. It's not a thing of blaming ourselves or having shame or should we feel any embarrassment about it. Everyone does the best that they can with what they have been given, right? Everybody does. And so we can have compassion for ourselves, for where we were in that space and say, gosh, you know, I just wish I could go back and hug her. But I'm so glad I was in a space where I had potential and I could learn from it. And now look at where I am, and now look at where I'm continuing to go. Like, that's huge.
I feel like we should all be able to take that moment and just honor ourselves in that instead of feeling any kind of, like, shame or embarrassment or anything like that. It's like, no, I learned and now look at me. That's awesome. If we don't look back on, like, old photos and old stuff or old posts on Facebook and social media and cringe, I feel like we have not like we should, right? If we're looking back, be like, man, that was the best time of my life. It's like, honey, yeah.
Be like, damn.
[00:39:58] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. When you look. When you look at photos of past relationships and you're like, what? I fought for that.
[00:40:03] Speaker A: What?
Oh, my gosh. Or like, oh, my gosh, I've had that. I'm like, I was heartbroken over this guy that for life, cannot remember.
[00:40:16] Speaker B: Yeah, we've all had those. I had more than a few.
Love on you.
[00:40:22] Speaker A: Love on you so much.
Oh, my gosh. I love this conversation. So, so, so much. For those that are listening or watching, how could people get more in contact with you? How could they maybe work with you or have you helped them with their relationships?
[00:40:39] Speaker B: Well, I mean, I. So I actually just created Divorce Support Network, which is a way to connect people at all phases of divorce with the right professionals that can help them. So if you look up divorcesupportnetwork.com, you can read all about it there.
I also have another business where I specialize in helping break the trauma bond and also to rediscover and, you know, reclaim their lives after a relationship ends so they don't do it all over again. And that you can get a hold of me too, if you look me up. Stephanie McPhail on all the social medias Being Loved Shouldn't Hurt, which is my book. And also you can find a bunch of other interviews that I've done. And of course, the More Support Network, those are all great places to reach me. And also anyone who's listening to this, I am offering a one on one consultation with me for free. And if you say that you listen to me here on this podcast, I will be the one that meets with you on that consultation, not somebody else from my team.
[00:41:35] Speaker A: I love that. Thank you. What a beautiful extension of yourself. For those that. That watch this or listen to this episode, I love what you're doing. I love that, that you're looking at this from an aspect of. We really need to extend support for people, especially in this, like, transition in their life. Right. Because it can be so hard to feel like we're alone. Right. Or like we failed or there's something shameful or wrong or unlovable about us when in reality, like we said earlier, I think like, this is the majority of us. Like, we all, at some level, feel this way. And so the more we can talk about it, the more we're making space for others to recognize they're actually not alone.
[00:42:28] Speaker B: And I want you to keep in mind, I mean, no matter how long you have felt bad, no matter how messed up you feel like your life is, it is possible to create change. I don't want you to think, like, I'm too fucked up, nobody's going to want me, or my life is just a mess. You have the power to create something different at any time. Maybe today's the day that you have that insight and say, you know what? I'm going to go for it. I'm going to try, you know, I'm going to just make one different decision than what I've done before. That could be the beginning of your whole new life. Little tiny shifts bring us in a completely different direction. But I'll give you a hint. Doing it on our own is much more difficult. Whether it's Nancy, whether it's myself, whether it's somebody else that you really resonate with, find that person to help navigate or help you navigate the new life that you are creating. So you didn't. Don't keep repeating the life that you don't want to have.
[00:43:19] Speaker A: Yeah, that's such great advice. Because that, that is something. It's like we'll, we'll see this almost like toxic empowerment where it's like, well, I'm a, I'm a healer. I can heal myself or I can figure this out, or I'll just read the self help books. And of course, like, books are great. Like, I've gotten so much out of books. But when it comes to actually reconditioning response patterns, having someone else that can help us navigate that, there, there's no replacement. Like, there, there's nothing.
There's just nothing. There's no replacement for that.
[00:44:00] Speaker B: And the thinking that got us here can't get us out. We need that outside perspective.
[00:44:05] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. It's like that definition of insanity, right? The same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. Like, it's not gonna work. If we could, we would have done it by now.
[00:44:15] Speaker B: Exactly. And it's not that we are. There's not there's anything wrong with us. It's just if we've never done it before, like if we've never created a healthy relationship, work with someone that has and can get you there. It's like, you know, you wouldn't do brain surgery if you've never gotten training, but we beat ourselves up thinking, why can't I do it? But we've never. We don't have the tools to create the life we want. And then we're mad at ourselves for not creating the life. It's just that we don't know how to do it.
[00:44:37] Speaker A: Exactly. And that's okay, because nobody should know how to do everything. Otherwise we don't have potential there either. Right? It's all about growth and expansion.
I love it. Thank you so, so much for being on with me today. And we will see everyone on the next episode.
